You make a good point. Wind turbines are taking out large raptors including sea eagles and wedge-tailed eagles (amongst other bird, bat and mammal life). I had planned an Australian-style Zoroastrian burial whereby my body is lain on a very remote outback road (hopefully the traffic is minimal) and the wedgies get a go, but like the vultures in the north hemisphere, wedge-tailed eagles are a rarity now. I suspect I'll become sparrow, starling and Indian myna pickings instead, which is plainly ecologically appalling.
It's a very interesting question as to legality. The laws around death differs from state to state in Australia, but this is for Queensland: file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/wp58.pdf The Queensland Law Reform Commission (2004), "A REVIEW OF THE LAW IN RELATION TO THE FINAL DISPOSAL OF A DEAD BODY" - also examines the law in the other states. There is this, "However, aspects of final disposal may be indirectly regulated by State law or policies which relate to health, the environment, and/or public order." The public order part has this to say, " the placement of a corpse in a public place may constitute an offence of public nuisance under s 7AA of the Vagrants, Gaming and Other Offences Act 1931 (Qld). This section provides that a person commits a public nuisance if the person behaves in an offensive way and the person’s behaviour interferes, or is likely to interfere, with the peaceful passage through, or enjoyment of, a public place by a member of the public."
So - get out of urban areas and ...go west? Chapters 4 and 5 (What commonly happens; beliefs, ,customs and practice) lets me think my Australian Zoroastrian burial would be possible. However there are a few laws involved, and whether there has been change since 2004 I'm not able to tell in a short period of time. I'm happy to look further if you want a definitive answer.
This is so interesting! I don't want to put you to the trouble of researching it for me but thank you for the information. Also, I'm thinking a dead body can't really "behave" in any way, so... Sounds like there are places where it would be fine. Very different here, where we had to get a permit from the village mayor to scatter my mother's ashes over the land. It's not like ashes pose a health risk or anything and yet you can't do it without a permit (in case anyone sees you scattering ashes, which is unlikely).
Thank you Irina! To add further flesh to your post :) the Zoroastrian Paris community in India have traditionally employed vultures to close the loop, but scarcity of the birds has driven them to using solar concentrators - how green is that?! https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/with-no-vultures-a-parsis-ritual-on-the-brink/article7622310.ece Will Musk and Spacex spot an opportunity for rich climate sceptics? I'll close with Woody Allen's life-affirming quote: "I don't want to be remembered for my work, I want to be remembered for not dying: I don't want to live on in my work, I want to live on in my apartment".
My preference? Pine box, no chemicals, though I am not Jewish, the 3 day rule will apply. When my mother passed, she was not only filled with embalming fluids for the funeral (which took about 10 days to occur), but then also cremated afterwords. Quite disgusting to me, to incinerate all that formaldhyde. But the worst part was how the mortuary was given a rather dated picture of her with heavy make-up, (the picture was from the 1970s, she passed around 2005), so she looked rather clownish in the coffin, with her eyebrows drawn on and too much rouge and lipstick. To me it was all quite stupid and humiliating, more difficult for me than the fact that she had died.
I can understand that. When my mum died, my dad tried to prepare me for the artificial made-up look but the mortuary had actually done a good job. I don't understand the embalming part, especially when it's followed by a cremation. What's the point? Just make the whole affair more expensive for grieving people temporarily unable to think rationally? I was lucky to have a friend mortician who organised everything and didn't try to prey on us.
In Bulgaria your preference is standard practice and some of us also save space by putting the latest deceased generation in their ancestors' graves. We're all together, not that we are actually there, but I like the thought.
The foundation behind all that you say is based on altruism, that others matter more than individuals. Read Ayn Rand for s full understanding of the self-destructive aspect of trying to elevate another over oneself.
While today the pinnacle of absurdity has been mounted by environmentalism, human cannibalism, the idea that the old could only survive by feeding on the labour of a younger generation has been with us forever. The view that a human being can be self-supporting over their own lifetime has been rejected by all tax-levying minions in order to fill their own pockets.
Sadly there are few people that fully reject the idea that all that human ever do is defile nature. In truth, we are the only species with the ability to IMPROVE nature for our own benefit, an admirable aspect rather than something to be vilified.
The greatest threat to all life on Earth, the greatest killer is… the environment, or nature whichever term is preferred. Environmentally friendly? I certainly am no friend of what’s trying to kill me.
For example, we are told plastic waste (from Humans) is a danger to marine life, yet the biggest danger to marine life is… marine life. They eat each other, usually whole and still alive.
Human’s defiling nature - amateurs when it comes to what nature does… earthquakes, Tsunami, forest fires, hurricanes, storms, volcanoes, plagues and pestilence, recurring ice ages.
Sound argument! I'm still on the fence whether the desire to procreate is genetically or intellectually driven and honestly I don't care. I'm happy being a mother, the rest can take care of themselves.
All of this boils down to a really simple point: a spiritual attack on humans by faceless ones who use the facade of a brigade of organizations and causes to perpetrate our extermination. Pesky us, though: we just won’t hurry up and die.
Beautiful humans!! If it is a spiritual war: don’t show up for a gunfight with sticks. We are loved more than we know, and we are not alone!!!!!!!
Good point. It's an attack on both biology and spirituality because we happen to be driven by both. I do hope more people feel loved. It protects against such destructive thinking.
Providing inexpensive, ample, 24x7 energy to developing nations REDUCES birthrates, by volunteerism, as women are freed from menial housekeeping tasks, gaining education, jobs, independence, and reproduction choices. We are already seeing the benefits. Peak baby was reached in 2013. Population decline will begin ~2080 as those humans die. Nuclear power can provide such humanitarian energy. https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/life/2022/11/12/the-stats-guy-peak-baby.
Yes, it's crazy. In one breath they claim to want to reduce human population and in the next breath they try to force us onto a path of austerity which leads to higher birth rates. Prosperity is the surest means of reducing birth rates, yet these bozos want to force misery on everyone. Hmmmm?
Okay Irina you've hit a sensitive spot! The very first scam I figured out, all on my own, was the overpopulation scam run by Paul Ehrlich. That was back in the mid 1980's pre-internet and all. Compare us all to the rest of the biosphere: "Humans make up a surprisingly small fraction of the Earth’s biomass. In terms of weight, humanity accounts for just 0.01% of the total biomass on Earth." Got that off Bing! Go ahead and compare us to termites. You'll find out we are small beer.
We are far less significant than we think. Hard to measure, but our biggest impact on planet earth is, if I had to guess, land use changes. But it's still small and insignificant on a planetary scale.
Cruise over to your favorite statistics website to find there is less hunger, less poverty than ever before. The planet is fine. We are fine. Have some kids. Everything is okay. Work hard, play hard, have a burger and a beer. Everything is just fine.
It all really boils down to a religious argument. "Vehement" is simply a death cult spouting dogma.
I am convinced the biggest problem of the whole transition, humans-are-a-plague crowd is their massive overestimation of humankind's impact on the planet. Talk about hubris.
This is great. Let's think about this for a minute. If the movement is successful, it has no future. Since the biological imperative for most is strong, the future these folks imagine is never going to arrive. That means this is really no more than a quirky, virtue-signaling kind of movement. It is, however very much aligned with the de-growth approach of the Club of Rome!
Well, they said it: if they go, who will preach the self-extinction gospel to the rest of us? They are important people! Just like the SUV-driving climate activists.
I recommend the book: The Selfish Gene - by Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist.
Simplifying the theme: Humans are just vessels to carry genes their sole aim being to survive by getting their Human to propagate. Only one copy has to survive. So once a gene-carrying organism has procreated, they are expendable.
Humans, and other organisms, have characteristics bestowed by genes, which enable the organism to survive and thrive but only so it can propagate those genes. The genes that are best at getting their Human carrier to survive and procreate are the most successful. Once it’s done it’s bye, bye. Which is why Humans start dying from age 21 and in evolutionary terms are not required to live beyond age 30.
So… “ “Our biological urge is to have sex, not to make babies,” - that urge is there thanks to those selfish genes who very much want babies made carrying copies of them.
So Humans are really just disposable wrappers (non-recyclable) for genes. A sobering thought.
Read it. Highly informative, though a bit... selfish. Disposable wrappers! :D I like the God Delusion and the Magic of Everyday Life better, especially the latter.
I guess Sky Burials are out for this group because all of the raptors have gotten whacked by those wind mills.
You make a good point. Wind turbines are taking out large raptors including sea eagles and wedge-tailed eagles (amongst other bird, bat and mammal life). I had planned an Australian-style Zoroastrian burial whereby my body is lain on a very remote outback road (hopefully the traffic is minimal) and the wedgies get a go, but like the vultures in the north hemisphere, wedge-tailed eagles are a rarity now. I suspect I'll become sparrow, starling and Indian myna pickings instead, which is plainly ecologically appalling.
Now that's one actually sustainable option that has an absolute-zero emission footprint. Is this a legal way to go after death?
It's a very interesting question as to legality. The laws around death differs from state to state in Australia, but this is for Queensland: file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/wp58.pdf The Queensland Law Reform Commission (2004), "A REVIEW OF THE LAW IN RELATION TO THE FINAL DISPOSAL OF A DEAD BODY" - also examines the law in the other states. There is this, "However, aspects of final disposal may be indirectly regulated by State law or policies which relate to health, the environment, and/or public order." The public order part has this to say, " the placement of a corpse in a public place may constitute an offence of public nuisance under s 7AA of the Vagrants, Gaming and Other Offences Act 1931 (Qld). This section provides that a person commits a public nuisance if the person behaves in an offensive way and the person’s behaviour interferes, or is likely to interfere, with the peaceful passage through, or enjoyment of, a public place by a member of the public."
So - get out of urban areas and ...go west? Chapters 4 and 5 (What commonly happens; beliefs, ,customs and practice) lets me think my Australian Zoroastrian burial would be possible. However there are a few laws involved, and whether there has been change since 2004 I'm not able to tell in a short period of time. I'm happy to look further if you want a definitive answer.
This is so interesting! I don't want to put you to the trouble of researching it for me but thank you for the information. Also, I'm thinking a dead body can't really "behave" in any way, so... Sounds like there are places where it would be fine. Very different here, where we had to get a permit from the village mayor to scatter my mother's ashes over the land. It's not like ashes pose a health risk or anything and yet you can't do it without a permit (in case anyone sees you scattering ashes, which is unlikely).
When see a group that advocates and practices childlessness, you are seeing natural selection at work.
The future belongs to those that have babies.
Thank you Irina! To add further flesh to your post :) the Zoroastrian Paris community in India have traditionally employed vultures to close the loop, but scarcity of the birds has driven them to using solar concentrators - how green is that?! https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/with-no-vultures-a-parsis-ritual-on-the-brink/article7622310.ece Will Musk and Spacex spot an opportunity for rich climate sceptics? I'll close with Woody Allen's life-affirming quote: "I don't want to be remembered for my work, I want to be remembered for not dying: I don't want to live on in my work, I want to live on in my apartment".
This is just sad, going from doing a service to nature by feeding birds to having your corpse dessicated by... solar concentrators. Very, very sad.
Great quote! I kinda disagree because I don't want to live on forever but great nevertheless. :D
My preference? Pine box, no chemicals, though I am not Jewish, the 3 day rule will apply. When my mother passed, she was not only filled with embalming fluids for the funeral (which took about 10 days to occur), but then also cremated afterwords. Quite disgusting to me, to incinerate all that formaldhyde. But the worst part was how the mortuary was given a rather dated picture of her with heavy make-up, (the picture was from the 1970s, she passed around 2005), so she looked rather clownish in the coffin, with her eyebrows drawn on and too much rouge and lipstick. To me it was all quite stupid and humiliating, more difficult for me than the fact that she had died.
I can understand that. When my mum died, my dad tried to prepare me for the artificial made-up look but the mortuary had actually done a good job. I don't understand the embalming part, especially when it's followed by a cremation. What's the point? Just make the whole affair more expensive for grieving people temporarily unable to think rationally? I was lucky to have a friend mortician who organised everything and didn't try to prey on us.
In Bulgaria your preference is standard practice and some of us also save space by putting the latest deceased generation in their ancestors' graves. We're all together, not that we are actually there, but I like the thought.
The foundation behind all that you say is based on altruism, that others matter more than individuals. Read Ayn Rand for s full understanding of the self-destructive aspect of trying to elevate another over oneself.
While today the pinnacle of absurdity has been mounted by environmentalism, human cannibalism, the idea that the old could only survive by feeding on the labour of a younger generation has been with us forever. The view that a human being can be self-supporting over their own lifetime has been rejected by all tax-levying minions in order to fill their own pockets.
Sadly there are few people that fully reject the idea that all that human ever do is defile nature. In truth, we are the only species with the ability to IMPROVE nature for our own benefit, an admirable aspect rather than something to be vilified.
The greatest threat to all life on Earth, the greatest killer is… the environment, or nature whichever term is preferred. Environmentally friendly? I certainly am no friend of what’s trying to kill me.
For example, we are told plastic waste (from Humans) is a danger to marine life, yet the biggest danger to marine life is… marine life. They eat each other, usually whole and still alive.
Human’s defiling nature - amateurs when it comes to what nature does… earthquakes, Tsunami, forest fires, hurricanes, storms, volcanoes, plagues and pestilence, recurring ice ages.
Great point!
I'd like a viking funeral.
People, including these vehement types, would be happier if they just worried about themselves.
Making babies is God's invitation to share in creation.
Babies are the only joy that some people have.
Love not self-extinction is our real purpose.
Sound-sounding sounds sound.
Sound argument! I'm still on the fence whether the desire to procreate is genetically or intellectually driven and honestly I don't care. I'm happy being a mother, the rest can take care of themselves.
All of this boils down to a really simple point: a spiritual attack on humans by faceless ones who use the facade of a brigade of organizations and causes to perpetrate our extermination. Pesky us, though: we just won’t hurry up and die.
Beautiful humans!! If it is a spiritual war: don’t show up for a gunfight with sticks. We are loved more than we know, and we are not alone!!!!!!!
Good point. It's an attack on both biology and spirituality because we happen to be driven by both. I do hope more people feel loved. It protects against such destructive thinking.
Brilliantly funny. After reading this, I'm feeling much less dense
Thank you. Less dense is the way to go. :)
Providing inexpensive, ample, 24x7 energy to developing nations REDUCES birthrates, by volunteerism, as women are freed from menial housekeeping tasks, gaining education, jobs, independence, and reproduction choices. We are already seeing the benefits. Peak baby was reached in 2013. Population decline will begin ~2080 as those humans die. Nuclear power can provide such humanitarian energy. https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/life/2022/11/12/the-stats-guy-peak-baby.
Yes, it's crazy. In one breath they claim to want to reduce human population and in the next breath they try to force us onto a path of austerity which leads to higher birth rates. Prosperity is the surest means of reducing birth rates, yet these bozos want to force misery on everyone. Hmmmm?
Logical thinking is not one of their strengths.
I think the Darwin Awards may have to be retired permanently, to honor these vehemently idiotic aqua-bobbleheads.
Nooo, the Darwin Awards are precious!
Okay Irina you've hit a sensitive spot! The very first scam I figured out, all on my own, was the overpopulation scam run by Paul Ehrlich. That was back in the mid 1980's pre-internet and all. Compare us all to the rest of the biosphere: "Humans make up a surprisingly small fraction of the Earth’s biomass. In terms of weight, humanity accounts for just 0.01% of the total biomass on Earth." Got that off Bing! Go ahead and compare us to termites. You'll find out we are small beer.
We are far less significant than we think. Hard to measure, but our biggest impact on planet earth is, if I had to guess, land use changes. But it's still small and insignificant on a planetary scale.
Cruise over to your favorite statistics website to find there is less hunger, less poverty than ever before. The planet is fine. We are fine. Have some kids. Everything is okay. Work hard, play hard, have a burger and a beer. Everything is just fine.
It all really boils down to a religious argument. "Vehement" is simply a death cult spouting dogma.
I am convinced the biggest problem of the whole transition, humans-are-a-plague crowd is their massive overestimation of humankind's impact on the planet. Talk about hubris.
How can the. VHMTERS succeed if they won’t last more than a generation? Ask the Shakers how to do it. Good luck overcoming God / Mother Nature
Well, if they can get everyone currently alive on their side they will succeed. But they won't because nature is stronger.
This is great. Let's think about this for a minute. If the movement is successful, it has no future. Since the biological imperative for most is strong, the future these folks imagine is never going to arrive. That means this is really no more than a quirky, virtue-signaling kind of movement. It is, however very much aligned with the de-growth approach of the Club of Rome!
Yet they may win a lot of people for their "cause", making them miserable for the rest of their lives.
What I find interesting about these “people” who want human extinction is why are they so reluctant to take the first logical step.
It's true, no leadership at all
Well, they said it: if they go, who will preach the self-extinction gospel to the rest of us? They are important people! Just like the SUV-driving climate activists.
I recommend the book: The Selfish Gene - by Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist.
Simplifying the theme: Humans are just vessels to carry genes their sole aim being to survive by getting their Human to propagate. Only one copy has to survive. So once a gene-carrying organism has procreated, they are expendable.
Humans, and other organisms, have characteristics bestowed by genes, which enable the organism to survive and thrive but only so it can propagate those genes. The genes that are best at getting their Human carrier to survive and procreate are the most successful. Once it’s done it’s bye, bye. Which is why Humans start dying from age 21 and in evolutionary terms are not required to live beyond age 30.
So… “ “Our biological urge is to have sex, not to make babies,” - that urge is there thanks to those selfish genes who very much want babies made carrying copies of them.
So Humans are really just disposable wrappers (non-recyclable) for genes. A sobering thought.
Read it. Highly informative, though a bit... selfish. Disposable wrappers! :D I like the God Delusion and the Magic of Everyday Life better, especially the latter.
“The process — also called aquamation…”
Isn’t that burial at sea a long practiced ceremony by ships at sea for centuries? Very ‘green’ even provides fish-food.
Yes, well, we can't do it at the necessary scale today, just think of all those microplastics in our brains and what they'd do to marine life!